Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Qatar Airways To Place Major Order At Paris Air Show
FleetBuzz.com Worldwide Forums > Civil Aviation Discussions > Aircraft Orders/Acquisition Rumors
Jet Blast
I came across this as I was reading about QR launching its Houston route:

http://www.thenational.ae/article/20090331...73827181/-1/ART


QUOTE
HOUSTON // Qatar Airways, the second-largest Arab-nation carrier, will order new aeroplanes in June and add an average of seven routes a year for the next five years as it sees opportunities for growth despite the slowdown in air travel.

The Doha-based airline plans to double its coverage of US cities from three to six in the near future and also launch its first destination in South America next year, says Akbar al Baker, the airline's chief executive. A "major order" of aircraft is planned for the Paris Air Show this summer, he says, without disclosing details. "You'll have to wait until the air show." He also dismisses fears that the slowdown is rapidly becoming more severe.

"In my opinion this is not a crisis, this is an economic downturn which we will weather," he says. "Whenever there is an economic downturn there are opportunities. And we are very clever about those opportunities." He cites Qatar Airways's upcoming services to Goa and Amritsar in India as two markets that hold potential but have escaped the notice of other carriers.

Even as the company plans far beyond the downturn, however, Mr al Baker acknowledges the effects of the slowdown. Passenger growth this year will be the airline's lowest in 12 years, and less than the growth in new capacity.

In its February-March Financial Monitor, released this week, the International Air Transport Association (IATA) said that "passenger demand has not found a floor and is now declining at a faster rate". However, the Middle East fared better than worldwide airline performance, growing passenger traffic by 0.4 per cent compared with negative 10.1 per cent globally.

David Kaminski-Morrow, an editor at Air Transport Intelligence in London, says: "One of the main problems with the current downturn is that it is damaging the premium market, and it's the front end of the aircraft that is considered the place where profits are made. The Middle East market is arguably cushioned slightly but certain key markets – India, notably, and the cargo sector – are nevertheless a concern."

By contrast, Qatar's flag carrier believes it can increase passenger traffic by nearly 20 per cent this year to reach 14.4 million as it launches services to untapped markets and reaps the rewards from Qatar's economic boom. Seating capacity will rise by up to 23 per cent this year, the chief executive says.

As the economy prospers, some UAE construction professionals are migrating to the nation as Qatari builders stay on course with construction projects. With the world's third-largest gas reserves and the globe's highest per capita GDP, Qatar is expected to expand its economy by between 7 per cent and 9 per cent this year, its government has says, even as global trade is expected to decline by 2 per cent.

Playing off this prosperity, Qatar Airways will this year add seven destinations: its inaugural flight to Houston touched down at George Bush Intercontinental Airport on Monday after a journey of 15 hours and 20 minutes, with Sydney, Melbourne, Goa, Amritsar, and two yet-to-be-announced European cities to follow.

Many of the new routes will be flown using one of a dozen Boeing 777 ultra-long range aircraft that Qatar Airways will receive this year. The arrivals follow a historic buying spree over the past three years that saw the carrier order 200 aircraft, worth US$40 billion (Dh146.92bn) at list prices, including options. With $10bn being invested at New Doha International Airport and upgrades at the existing terminal, Qatar's focus on global aviation has been matched only by the UAE among Gulf countries.

The big three carriers in the region – Qatar Airways, Emirates and Etihad – are reshaping the global industry by buying ultra-long-haul aircraft and rerouting traffic between Asia and the Americas and Europe over the Gulf. After global trade slowed sharply last year, however, many airlines were forced to conserve resources to survive. Emirates, Lufthansa and Singapore Airlines took extra capacity out of the markets hardest hit by the downturn, such as in North America.

Qatar Airways is one of several Gulf carriers that is increasingly targeting the US market. The airline, which has 21 weekly services to the US, including daily services to Houston, Washington and New York, will double its US presence with services to three new cities using mid-sized aircraft. "With this kind of capacity we deploy, it's easy to fill," says Mr al Baker. The plans also take advantage of minimal competition from US operators, according to Mr Kaminski-Morrow.

US carriers have tended to serve the Middle East indirectly, through code shares and alliances, thereby leaving an open goal to the region's operators," he says, "although there have been recent efforts, by Delta and United for example, to rebuild links."

Mr al Baker says the airline will fly to South America next year, but is not giving further details. Several years ago, the carrier opened an office in Sao Paolo, Brazil, but pulled out before services were launched.
ConcordeBoy
looks like we're staring at more 772LR orders... yay!
Stitch
77Ls sounds about right to me, as well.
kimshep
I can see the need and justification for international services to Doha, based on the requirements of interaction between members of the global oil industry .. but as for other market segments, QR's entry on a number of new routes will simply serve to further fragment existing carrier's performance.

After all, Doha is not exactly a desired global 'must-see' tourism destination - so QR's only aim can be to mimic the already over-reaching EK and EY by carrying / re-routing existing "through" or connecting traffic through the Doha hub to other destinations.

I suppose that one cannot blame the Qataris for trying to 'cash-in' in the shrinking travel market - but perhaps, the greatest contribution that QR will make .. will simply be to bolster the region's attempts at attracting and somewhat 'forcing' a revision of traffic via the ME hubs ? As such, the beneficiaries will be the Arab trumvirates.
UNDBoeingNut
77L seems like a shoe in. For a curve ball statement, how about the 7478i? If I recall correctly there was a story recently about the interior manufacturer having orders for 40 interiors for the frame. I may be incorrect with that statement, please take it with a grain of salt, I just think it would be a very interesting looking paint job.
ConcordeBoy
QUOTE (UNDBoeingNut @ Mar 31 2009, 08:12 PM) *
For a curve ball statement, how about the 7478i?

East coast and intra-Asia, fine... but if they want to ape EK so far as the likes of California goes, then they'll need the 77L.
Stitch
Qatar is still an important partner in US defense and economic development in the Middle East. I admit I am surprised there does not appear to be direct service between Washington DC and Doha, but perhaps that is coming down the road.

I've been brushing up on my history and current events of the Middle East recently and Doha - like Dubai and Abu Dhabi - strike me as more then "flash in the pan" economies. I do believe they have the ability to become the new "Singapores" of the Middle East. And Qatar especially impresses me.
robertkc
QUOTE (Stitch @ Apr 1 2009, 05:29 PM) *
Qatar is still an important partner in US defense and economic development in the Middle East. I admit I am surprised there does not appear to be direct service between Washington DC and Doha, but perhaps that is coming down the road.

I've been brushing up on my history and current events of the Middle East recently and Doha - like Dubai and Abu Dhabi - strike me as more then "flash in the pan" economies. I do believe they have the ability to become the new "Singapores" of the Middle East. And Qatar especially impresses me.

Err - right. Have you ever been to any of these sh!t-holes places?

While Dubai has somehow managed to carve out a niche as a 'hub' for ex-pats, the illusion of these places as progressive centres of excellence with liberal minded policies is just that - an illusion. Kiss your girlfriend in the back of a taxi and you may find yourself in prison for 3 days. I don't think they're prepared, idiologically, to accept 'western' practices within their borders to the extent that's required to allow 'westeners' to live in these places for more than a couple of years.

I don't know a single person who's left any of these places and not be thrilled to get the heck out. Asia (Singapore, Hong Kong) is a totally different story...
jimc
QUOTE (robertkc @ Apr 1 2009, 11:53 AM) *
QUOTE (Stitch @ Apr 1 2009, 05:29 PM) *
Qatar is still an important partner in US defense and economic development in the Middle East. I admit I am surprised there does not appear to be direct service between Washington DC and Doha, but perhaps that is coming down the road.

I've been brushing up on my history and current events of the Middle East recently and Doha - like Dubai and Abu Dhabi - strike me as more then "flash in the pan" economies. I do believe they have the ability to become the new "Singapores" of the Middle East. And Qatar especially impresses me.

Err - right. Have you ever been to any of these sh!t-holes places?

While Dubai has somehow managed to carve out a niche as a 'hub' for ex-pats, the illusion of these places as progressive centres of excellence with liberal minded policies is just that - an illusion. Kiss your girlfriend in the back of a taxi and you may find yourself in prison for 3 days. I don't think they're prepared, idiologically, to accept 'western' practices within their borders to the extent that's required to allow 'westeners' to live in these places for more than a couple of years.

I don't know a single person who's left any of these places and not be thrilled to get the heck out. Asia (Singapore, Hong Kong) is a totally different story...



I kiss your girlfriend in the back of a cab often, and I have never been put in prison.
Stitch
QUOTE (robertkc @ Apr 1 2009, 09:53 AM) *
Err - right. Have you ever been to any of these sh!t-holes places?


With respect, I'd ask you the same thing.

Those areas are not nearly as culturally and socially backwards as so many in the West seem to think.

The entire Middle East is not Saudi Arabia nor Iran.
Jet Blast
QUOTE (Stitch @ Apr 1 2009, 11:29 AM) *
I admit I am surprised there does not appear to be direct service between Washington DC and Doha, but perhaps that is coming down the road.


Huh?

Qatar Airways already flies nonstop IAD-DOH.
Stitch
QUOTE (Jet Blast @ Apr 1 2009, 11:00 PM) *
QUOTE (Stitch @ Apr 1 2009, 11:29 AM) *
I admit I am surprised there does not appear to be direct service between Washington DC and Doha, but perhaps that is coming down the road.


Huh?

Qatar Airways already flies nonstop IAD-DOH.


So they do. Thanks.
kimshep
QUOTE (Stitch @ Apr 2 2009, 01:37 PM) *
Those areas are not nearly as culturally and socially backwards as so many in the West seem to think.

The entire Middle East is not Saudi Arabia nor Iran.


My response is somewhat 'off-topic' in respect of QR's plans but ... In defence of robertkc's comments (which I tend to personally agree with), there is an important point to remember.

Muslim cultures, just as 'Western' cultures .. have degrees of 'adherance' and tolerance to the cultural, political and religious norms. No-one is necessarily suggesting that the Emirates and their surrounding areas are 'backward'. Indeed, economic success and prosperity is evident in many of these regions.

But I think what robertkc is validly alluding to .. is the lack of ability of Middle Eastern Muslim countries to equate resident cultures / beliefs / behaviours based on the Quoran to accepting certain levels of Western behaviour that are deemed 'normal' in the majority of the world. This will always be a problem when you manage / oversee a community with strict beliefs, yet set to embrace the dollar-denominated appeal of other (Western, for instance) cultures, unless it is addressed by the powers that be.

In most advanced societies, the separation of church, state and judiciary is paramount and their independence is secured. In much of the Middle East, this separation does not exist .. and the culture / community is built on the interaction and intersection of all three.

One only needs to contrast the two largest Muslim cultures of Malaysia (relaxed) and Indonesia (highly radical) to see this in effect.

A perfect example is the question of alcohol in such Middle Eastern communities. There are 'hard-line' Muslim countries that don't embrace it at all (while paradoxically serving it on their airlines !), others that make exceptions for 'visitors' by legislating specific laws and exceptions (ie: foreigners being able to drink in international hotels, but not elsewhere) .. and countries that freely embrace the concept of alcohol consumption.

Clearly, in the Western world - we seem to be more tolerant of 'other' cultures and ethnic sensitivities, on a community basis. Equally, in many instances, we extend 'respect' to such cultures - both in our own countries and when we visit their countries - and often, as foreigners, seek to observe some of the cultural differences. Think removing shoes at Mosques etc and adhering broadly to alcohol rules / legislation, where it exists.

However, as robertkc infers .. some Muslim cultures are so 'strident' in their beliefs that there is little or no room for tolerance. This is a failing that will eventually need to be addressed by such Muslim governments. If it is not addressed, then they risk the total loss of Western visitors, investment and interaction.

Dubai is being faced with much of this corollary, at the present time. Lesbians kissing on the beach, drunken holiday-makers enjoying the sites, people swimming nude at beaches, couples kissing in public or showing "too much affection" .. are all issues that in Western societies might draw a fine and a raised community eyebrow. But in such Middle East environs -under varying social conditions, these can easily result in imprisonment without appeal, stoning, lashing, body modification (ie: having a hand or other parts cut off) or death, depending on the level of religious adherance. Not a great way to treat visitors or the communities that you are seeking to embrace.

Perhaps, this should be a "Non-Aviation" topic discussion ?
Jacobin777
QUOTE (kimshep @ Apr 2 2009, 05:47 PM) *
QUOTE (Stitch @ Apr 2 2009, 01:37 PM) *
Those areas are not nearly as culturally and socially backwards as so many in the West seem to think.

The entire Middle East is not Saudi Arabia nor Iran.


My response is somewhat 'off-topic' in respect of QR's plans but ... In defence of robertkc's comments (which I tend to personally agree with), there is an important point to remember.

Muslim cultures, just as 'Western' cultures .. have degrees of 'adherance' and tolerance to the cultural, political and religious norms. No-one is necessarily suggesting that the Emirates and their surrounding areas are 'backward'. Indeed, economic success and prosperity is evident in many of these regions.

But I think what robertkc is validly alluding to .. is the lack of ability of Middle Eastern Muslim countries to equate resident cultures / beliefs / behaviours based on the Quoran to accepting certain levels of Western behaviour that are deemed 'normal' in the majority of the world. This will always be a problem when you manage / oversee a community with strict beliefs, yet set to embrace the dollar-denominated appeal of other (Western, for instance) cultures, unless it is addressed by the powers that be.

In most advanced societies, the separation of church, state and judiciary is paramount and their independence is secured. In much of the Middle East, this separation does not exist .. and the culture / community is built on the interaction and intersection of all three.

One only needs to contrast the two largest Muslim cultures of Malaysia (relaxed) and Indonesia (highly radical) to see this in effect.

A perfect example is the question of alcohol in such Middle Eastern communities. There are 'hard-line' Muslim countries that don't embrace it at all (while paradoxically serving it on their airlines !), others that make exceptions for 'visitors' by legislating specific laws and exceptions (ie: foreigners being able to drink in international hotels, but not elsewhere) .. and countries that freely embrace the concept of alcohol consumption.

Clearly, in the Western world - we seem to be more tolerant of 'other' cultures and ethnic sensitivities, on a community basis. Equally, in many instances, we extend 'respect' to such cultures - both in our own countries and when we visit their countries - and often, as foreigners, seek to observe some of the cultural differences. Think removing shoes at Mosques etc and adhering broadly to alcohol rules / legislation, where it exists.

However, as robertkc infers .. some Muslim cultures are so 'strident' in their beliefs that there is little or no room for tolerance. This is a failing that will eventually need to be addressed by such Muslim governments. If it is not addressed, then they risk the total loss of Western visitors, investment and interaction.

Dubai is being faced with much of this corollary, at the present time. Lesbians kissing on the beach, drunken holiday-makers enjoying the sites, people swimming nude at beaches, couples kissing in public or showing "too much affection" .. are all issues that in Western societies might draw a fine and a raised community eyebrow. But in such Middle East environs -under varying social conditions, these can easily result in imprisonment without appeal, stoning, lashing, body modification (ie: having a hand or other parts cut off) or death, depending on the level of religious adherance. Not a great way to treat visitors or the communities that you are seeking to embrace.

Perhaps, this should be a "Non-Aviation" topic discussion ?


But we're talking about places such as DXB and DOH....where booze, etc. is tolerated. Booze is even tolerated in Pakistan...
kimshep
Did you miss the 2nd last paragraph, by chance ? flowers.gif
Jacobin777
QUOTE (kimshep @ Apr 3 2009, 12:34 AM) *
Did you miss the 2nd last paragraph, by chance ? flowers.gif


Oh..sorry...doh.gif

That being said, its still a faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar cry from a particular poster's comments of those places (what seemed to be inferred are places such as DXB, DOH, AUH,etc)....before the collapse, most expats enjoyed living in places such as DXB, AUH, etc...in fact, many are beginning to look for opportunities again. BAH has been a Middle East financial hub for decades, and continues to be.

While the bubble might have deflated, places such as DXB, etc. have still vastly improved over the past few decades. yes.gif

The >1.0 billion Muslims aren't really interested in living Saudi Arabia anyway...just going for Umrah and Hajj...I've met many Westerners who actually like living in Saudi-for whatever reason (pay, etc.).

Hundreds of millions of Muslims (in fact, the vast majority) don't want to have all "western values" incorporated into an Islamic society...no matter how "normal" it seems to Westerners. The vast majority actually prefer the "conservatism" of what Islam brings and actually don't have a problem the lack of separation of govt., etc.. Also, culture plays an important role as well.

I don't think we have a right to tell a community/society to tell how to live.

Finally, most are just living "day-to-day" working and supporting family....be it San Francisco or Dubai...


kimshep
QUOTE (Jacobin777 @ Apr 5 2009, 02:19 AM) *
Hundreds of millions of Muslims (in fact, the vast majority) don't want to have all "western values" incorporated into an Islamic society...no matter how "normal" it seems to Westerners.

Entirely valid response, Jacobin777 .. and I am not suggesting that Islamic society be, in any way, forced to adopt all western values.

But the failure to educate women, persecute and kill homosexuals, stone women who undergo abortions etc are clearly against the tide of global human rights and religious beliefs (of all religions). These are values that DO need to be changed. There is a major difference between religious beliefs, conservatism, morality and taking someone's life, in the name of "justice" or religious extremism.

In all nations, followers and communities of the Jewish, Budhist, Amish, Hindu etc faiths all have rituals and conservative views that seem 'peculiar' or at odds to many 'Westerners' .. and they are not denied their ability to practice their faith, or garner respect, from within their communities.

However, 'arbitary' values of killing people or carrying bombs for Allah extend outside the realm of religion and impact on basic human, social and judicial rights.

QUOTE (Jacobin777 @ Apr 5 2009, 02:19 AM) *
The vast majority actually prefer the "conservatism" of what Islam brings and actually don't have a problem the lack of separation of govt., etc.. Also, culture plays an important role as well.

I don't think we have a right to tell a community/society to tell how to live.

I don't disagree with the concept of 'conservatism' - it is the marker by which a society measures whether laws and attitudes are regarded as advanced, permissive, retrograde or perilous. But it is the job of the judiciary to decide that .. yes, even in communist countries. How can a Judiciary be independent and fair, when it is - in most Muslim countries - comprised of individuals who are bound by a primary attchment to their religious beliefs, which takes precedence before the law ?

You state that you don't believe that "we have a right to tell a community / society how to live". Unfortunately, this is not the case. It is the entire raisson-de- etre for the existence of the United Nations, an organisation to which most Muslim countries belong and which seeks to maintain life / society and improve it ~ irrespective of religious beliefs. But with a mantra of protecting those beliefs, where they are subordinate to global rights.

It is relatively easy to be seduced by the needs of a community, but when the entire rights of global society are at risk, I'm afraid that such an argument holds little water, for me.

So, while in the greater USA it is illegal, I presume that you would promote the rights of the polygamous marriages of many families in the SLC area ? Further, is it fair - or defensible - to seek to re-educate the cannibals of Papua New Guinea ?

However, even in less-conservative Dubai with it's wealth and glittering society, abuses DO occur. There are currently 11 Australian, some 30 British and countless US business-people (expatriate workers who are company managers) being detained in UAE jails now, without any form of appeal - being held accountable for 'failure' of the Dubai economy. Some have been held for many months. These are not 'crimes' of passion, morality or religious exerbation .. but simple civil matters. I suggest you might like to do some further reading on their plight.

It is one thing to promote the idea of 'conservatism' in Islamic / Muslim society, but the examples I have given do not denote true conservatism. They are clearly extremist, in a global view. Perhaps, if the Muslim society was to embrace conservatism, it could be done via education and lightening up a little ? After all, as the Disney version of society sings .. "it's a small world". Maybe Walt's mantra should be required daily viewing on Arabic television ?
Aurora
Back on topic, I submit that QR is using commercial aviation orders as an extension of foreign policy, i.e., curry favor with one and play off two industrial blocks against each other. Otherwise, that large, not-for-profit airline simply makes no sense given its proximity to the larger emirates concerns and its paucity of O&D traffic.
kimshep
Good point, Aurora !

.. but would this be any different to what EK has done ? It seams to have worked a 'treat' for EK in respect of their business ownership share at Airbus.
Jacobin777
QUOTE (kimshep @ Apr 4 2009, 06:55 PM) *
QUOTE (Jacobin777 @ Apr 5 2009, 02:19 AM) *
Hundreds of millions of Muslims (in fact, the vast majority) don't want to have all "western values" incorporated into an Islamic society...no matter how "normal" it seems to Westerners.

Entirely valid response, Jacobin777 .. and I am not suggesting that Islamic society be, in any way, forced to adopt all western values.

But the failure to educate women, persecute and kill homosexuals, stone women who undergo abortions etc are clearly against the tide of global human rights and religious beliefs (of all religions). These are values that DO need to be changed. There is a major difference between religious beliefs, conservatism, morality and taking someone's life, in the name of "justice" or religious extremism.

In all nations, followers and communities of the Jewish, Budhist, Amish, Hindu etc faiths all have rituals and conservative views that seem 'peculiar' or at odds to many 'Westerners' .. and they are not denied their ability to practice their faith, or garner respect, from within their communities.

However, 'arbitary' values of killing people or carrying bombs for Allah extend outside the realm of religion and impact on basic human, social and judicial rights.

QUOTE (Jacobin777 @ Apr 5 2009, 02:19 AM) *
The vast majority actually prefer the "conservatism" of what Islam brings and actually don't have a problem the lack of separation of govt., etc.. Also, culture plays an important role as well.

I don't think we have a right to tell a community/society to tell how to live.

I don't disagree with the concept of 'conservatism' - it is the marker by which a society measures whether laws and attitudes are regarded as advanced, permissive, retrograde or perilous. But it is the job of the judiciary to decide that .. yes, even in communist countries. How can a Judiciary be independent and fair, when it is - in most Muslim countries - comprised of individuals who are bound by a primary attchment to their religious beliefs, which takes precedence before the law ?

You state that you don't believe that "we have a right to tell a community / society how to live". Unfortunately, this is not the case. It is the entire raisson-de- etre for the existence of the United Nations, an organisation to which most Muslim countries belong and which seeks to maintain life / society and improve it ~ irrespective of religious beliefs. But with a mantra of protecting those beliefs, where they are subordinate to global rights.

It is relatively easy to be seduced by the needs of a community, but when the entire rights of global society are at risk, I'm afraid that such an argument holds little water, for me.

So, while in the greater USA it is illegal, I presume that you would promote the rights of the polygamous marriages of many families in the SLC area ? Further, is it fair - or defensible - to seek to re-educate the cannibals of Papua New Guinea ?

However, even in less-conservative Dubai with it's wealth and glittering society, abuses DO occur. There are currently 11 Australian, some 30 British and countless US business-people (expatriate workers who are company managers) being detained in UAE jails now, without any form of appeal - being held accountable for 'failure' of the Dubai economy. Some have been held for many months. These are not 'crimes' of passion, morality or religious exerbation .. but simple civil matters. I suggest you might like to do some further reading on their plight.

It is one thing to promote the idea of 'conservatism' in Islamic / Muslim society, but the examples I have given do not denote true conservatism. They are clearly extremist, in a global view. Perhaps, if the Muslim society was to embrace conservatism, it could be done via education and lightening up a little ? After all, as the Disney version of society sings .. "it's a small world". Maybe Walt's mantra should be required daily viewing on Arabic television ?



I don't disagree with most of your comments Kimshep..you have very valid points-but the United States has many, many injustices as well..such as the amount of blacks incarcerated (or executed by the govt.) on death row for crimes which they didn't commit, "Gitmo", etc.......but as Aurora has stated...we should get back on topic...yes.gif

I just don't see how all of three of these carriers, along with the other carriers such as GF, SV, etc. will be able to survive their growth rate...I think its going to sloooooow down dramatically...much more than we realise, and certainly much more than they realise..yes.gif
Jet Blast
Qatar Airways ordered 24 A320-family aircraft at the Paris Air Show. The breakdown is 20 A320s and four A321s. The four A321s are the same from Farnborough last year. QR just firmed up the order from an MOU.

QR went with IAE as the engine choice.

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20090615-706028.html
Stitch
The sad thing is, 24 A320s really does count as a "major order" this year. sad.gif
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2010 Invision Power Services, Inc.