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Stitch
Makes sense.

Use the 10 A330-300s as interim lift via a lease.

Cancel their 787-9 order and select 15 A350-900XWBs as A340-300 replacements plus expansion. Then add 35 A350-1000XWBs to replace their A340-600 and 747-400 fleet. Two models would make fleet planning much simpler.
Jacobin777
QUOTE (Stitch @ Jun 22 2009, 01:51 PM) *
Makes sense.

Use the 10 A330-300s as interim lift via a lease.

Cancel their 787-9 order and select 15 A350-900XWBs as A340-300 replacements plus expansion. Then add 35 A350-1000XWBs to replace their A340-600 and 747-400 fleet. Two models would make fleet planning much simpler.


While SRB wasn't happy what happened with the Boeing strike and subsequent delay of the B787, I doubt their B787 order will be canceled. I think they will no longer be anymore A346's built for VS and I expect to see the A380's eventually canceled as well.



CoachBoy
QUOTE (Jacobin777 @ Jun 22 2009, 07:25 PM) *
While SRB wasn't happy what happened with the Boeing strike and subsequent delay of the B787, I doubt their B787 order will be canceled. I think they will no longer be anymore A346's built for VS and I expect to see the A380's eventually canceled as well.


Given the structuring of the A330 deal, it wouldn't surprise me if the 333's were an order conversion from the 346's. VS still has 6 outstanding orders and the fact that they are doing a sale/leaseback agreement on 6 and straight leasing the other 4. Also, for the eventual 346/744 replacement, Boeing has a very strong case, specifically for VS, for the 77W (or rewinged verion/Y3, assuming its in service) as the extra 2ft of cabin width of 777 would allow 1/3 more J seats for the same cabin length over the A330/340 (I reckon VS could good 60J/40W/235Y on a 77W), and it remains to be seen if the A350 can get 4 across in J using the VS seat.
Aurora
Given the Bearded One's remarks about BA, I would expect that he's planning on becoming the ex-officio UK flag carrier after the collapse of the competition. He'll need all those aircraft. Now, someone needs to tell BA that the end times are upon it.
Jacobin777
QUOTE (CoachBoy @ Jun 22 2009, 10:08 PM) *
QUOTE (Jacobin777 @ Jun 22 2009, 07:25 PM) *
While SRB wasn't happy what happened with the Boeing strike and subsequent delay of the B787, I doubt their B787 order will be canceled. I think they will no longer be anymore A346's built for VS and I expect to see the A380's eventually canceled as well.


Given the structuring of the A330 deal, it wouldn't surprise me if the 333's were an order conversion from the 346's. VS still has 6 outstanding orders and the fact that they are doing a sale/leaseback agreement on 6 and straight leasing the other 4. Also, for the eventual 346/744 replacement, Boeing has a very strong case, specifically for VS, for the 77W (or rewinged verion/Y3, assuming its in service) as the extra 2ft of cabin width of 777 would allow 1/3 more J seats for the same cabin length over the A330/340 (I reckon VS could good 60J/40W/235Y on a 77W), and it remains to be seen if the A350 can get 4 across in J using the VS seat.


That's what I've been thinking. All of these frames VS are getting are leased. The length of the leases would be more telling but to me it ostensibly seems purchasing the A330's instead of the A340's from Airbus resolves some of the A340(A346) order book VS, allows them to save cash, and doesn't keep them on a long-term commitment (unless the lease is long).


QUOTE (Aurora @ Jun 23 2009, 02:43 AM) *
Given the Bearded One's remarks about BA, I would expect that he's planning on becoming the ex-officio UK flag carrier after the collapse of the competition. He'll need all those aircraft. Now, someone needs to tell BA that the end times are upon it.


.... clap.gif
Stitch
With the A330-300s being on a 12-year lease, I think VS might be positioning itself for an A350 order. Boeing's announcement of yet another "indeterminate" delay due to a structural weakness discovered during fatigue testing isn't going to win Boeing any points with VS since it now kicks back the 787-9 even farther.

Considering VS's destination structure, a single fleet of A350-900XWBs and A350-1000XWBs could make a lot of sense for them. There is no penalty to canceling the 787-9 order and they can apply those monies along with the deposits on their A380-800s to the A350XWB order.
Jacobin777
QUOTE (Stitch @ Jun 23 2009, 06:38 AM) *
With the A330-300s being on a 12-year lease, I think VS might be positioning itself for an A350 order. Boeing's announcement of yet another "indeterminate" delay due to a structural weakness discovered during fatigue testing isn't going to win Boeing any points with VS since it now kicks back the 787-9 even farther.

Considering VS's destination structure, a single fleet of A350-900XWBs and A350-1000XWBs could make a lot of sense for them. There is no penalty to canceling the 787-9 order and they can apply those monies along with the deposits on their A380-800s to the A350XWB order.


I think Branson is smart enough to know that...

1)It's not smart to go with only one supplier (unless there is some kind of "price exclusivity").
2)The A350XWB might be delayed as well...and he really doesn't know how its going to perform.
3)The A333 near the end of its leases will be a very outdated plane (circa 2020-2023).

I think he's going to keep the order. The "VS is going to probably cancel the B787 order" is basically something akin to the "LH is going to cancel their B748I order"....

Stitch
Well he has time on his side, to be sure. Boeing is going to be hard-pressed to get him 787s any earlier than Airbus can get him A350s so he has no reason to cancel his 787 order at the moment since he can wait to see how the A350XWB shakes out. And Airbus doesn't want to lose VS as an A380 customer unless they can swing a more profitable deal for A350XWBs, so they will allow him to continue to defer until deep into next decade.

So he can sit back and see how the cards fall on the table.
Jacobin777
QUOTE (Stitch @ Jun 23 2009, 09:19 AM) *
Well he has time on his side, to be sure. Boeing is going to be hard-pressed to get him 787s any earlier than Airbus can get him A350s so he has no reason to cancel his 787 order at the moment since he can wait to see how the A350XWB shakes out. And Airbus doesn't want to lose VS as an A380 customer unless they can swing a more profitable deal for A350XWBs, so they will allow him to continue to defer until deep into next decade.

So he can sit back and see how the cards fall on the table.


Somewhat of a good situation. His B747's will be old as well as those obese A346's in the fleet. VS has lots of competition as well.

I think VS will go with the B789's and will eventually go 25+25 XWB's.....take no more A346's and will cancel the Whale...
robertkc
VS is DEFINITELY not going to be taking anymore A346s. They hate that POS.

The A330s are coming from AerCap, as I hadn't seen the lessor identified earlier flowers.gif
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