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jimc
While lacking details, it would seem that the delay in the 87 program may not be the only reason for consideration. I imagine every airline in the world is assessing its long-haul plans, some retrenching whilst others expand. Still, had there been fewer or no delay, many of these airlines now considering cancelation would have little choice outside of accepting delivery.





Air Berlin PLC (ABI.XE), Germany's second-largest carrier, said it is considering canceling an order for 25 Boeing Co. (BA) 787s, citing delays in the aircraft program and a review of its own long-haul strategy, Aviation Week reported Tuesday. Chief Financial Officer Ulf Huettmeyer called the delays "everything but satisfactory," and said Air Berlin would make a decision on its order in the next few months. Since its order for the Boeing aircraft in 2007, the carrier has scaled back its long-haul services and is considering further cuts and also is mulling a reduction in capacity on domestic routes.



Stitch
Maybe they'll swap the deposits for more 737NGs.
DAL767-400ER
QUOTE
citing delays in the aircraft program and a review of its own long-haul strategy

Yeah, in other words, Air Berlin still doesn't know what the hell kind of carrier they want to be (full-fare LFC scheduled travel package charter operator on short longhaul flights for the businessmen tourist crowd) and the 787 delay is actually convenient for them because they don't have any need for even half of the 787s on order even if they were to replace the A330s with them.
kimshep
Given Air Berlin's (announced today) 33% increase in Q2 profit, perhaps that really doesn't mean a 'hill o beans"?

In this current environment, there are very, very few airlines making profit of any kind (whether quarterly, half-yearly or annual). Sounds like their 'business plan' is working OK for them, despite many of our personal reservations ?

So, logically, one almost has to accept the 'face value' comments made by AB's management as 'reasonably creditable', I would think.

It has been said before. With the endless delays in the B787 program, to my mind, it is Boeing's credibility at stake here. Not Air Berlin's.
jimc
QUOTE (kimshep @ Aug 26 2009, 05:24 PM) *
Given Air Berlin's (announced today) 33% increase in Q2 profit, perhaps that really doesn't mean a 'hill o beans"?

In this current environment, there are very, very few airlines making profit of any kind (whether quarterly, half-yearly or annual). Sounds like their 'business plan' is working OK for them, despite many of our personal reservations ?

So, logically, one almost has to accept the 'face value' comments made by AB's management as 'reasonably creditable', I would think.

It has been said before. With the endless delays in the B787 program, to my mind, it is Boeing's credibility at stake here. Not Air Berlin's.


Well placed comments.
BeauNG
QUOTE (kimshep @ Aug 26 2009, 02:24 PM) *
Given Air Berlin's (announced today) 33% increase in Q2 profit, perhaps that really doesn't mean a 'hill o beans"?

In this current environment, there are very, very few airlines making profit of any kind (whether quarterly, half-yearly or annual). Sounds like their 'business plan' is working OK for them, despite many of our personal reservations ?
Oh really?

QUOTE
For the first six months, the company posted a net loss of euro81.4 million compared with a net loss of euro52 million in the first half of 2008.

Sales for the first half of the year were euro1.50 billion compared with euro1.52 billion a year ago, a near 2 percent decline. Passenger levels fell 6 percent during the first half of the year to 12.7 million people.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/articl...3pHeCgD9AA2QAG1

QUOTE
Revenues fell by 3.8 percent to 836.2 million euros, in line with estimates.

Air Berlin's stock has fallen by nearly a quarter so far this year and have lost about 70 percent of its value since the company's initial public offering in 2006.

http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssIndustr...LP8470520090825
.
robertkc
QUOTE (kimshep @ Aug 26 2009, 11:24 PM) *
Given Air Berlin's (announced today) 33% increase in Q2 profit, perhaps that really doesn't mean a 'hill o beans"?

In this current environment, there are very, very few airlines making profit of any kind (whether quarterly, half-yearly or annual). Sounds like their 'business plan' is working OK for them, despite many of our personal reservations ?

EBIT was up for the quarter, but Net Profit was down 9% to €7.1m on revenues of €836m - less than 1% profit margin. That revenue figure was down 5.5% for the quarter.

As for their strategy - it is ALL OVER THE PLACE as DAL767-400 pointed out earlier and they seem to be finding a niche for themselves as a bit of bmi of Germany - happy to co-exist in a duopoly controlled by the larger Lufthansa, while being over bloated cost-wise that they can't face the LCCs head on, and their fares are outrageous.

QUOTE (kimshep @ Aug 26 2009, 11:24 PM) *
It has been said before. With the endless delays in the B787 program, to my mind, it is Boeing's credibility at stake here. Not Air Berlin's.

Yes, Boeing's credibility is at stake, but so is Air Berlin's.
DAL767-400ER
QUOTE (robertkc @ Aug 27 2009, 11:28 AM) *
QUOTE (kimshep @ Aug 26 2009, 11:24 PM) *
It has been said before. With the endless delays in the B787 program, to my mind, it is Boeing's credibility at stake here. Not Air Berlin's.

Yes, Boeing's credibility is at stake, but so is Air Berlin's.

That would imply that Air Berlin actually has credibility to begin with shifty.gif .
kimshep
QUOTE (robertkc @ Aug 27 2009, 07:28 PM) *
QUOTE (kimshep @ Aug 26 2009, 11:24 PM) *
Given Air Berlin's (announced today) 33% increase in Q2 profit, perhaps that really doesn't mean a 'hill o beans"?

In this current environment, there are very, very few airlines making profit of any kind (whether quarterly, half-yearly or annual). Sounds like their 'business plan' is working OK for them, despite many of our personal reservations ?

EBIT was up for the quarter, but Net Profit was down 9% to €7.1m on revenues of €836m - less than 1% profit margin. That revenue figure was down 5.5% for the quarter.

As for their strategy - it is ALL OVER THE PLACE as DAL767-400 pointed out earlier and they seem to be finding a niche for themselves as a bit of bmi of Germany - happy to co-exist in a duopoly controlled by the larger Lufthansa, while being over bloated cost-wise that they can't face the LCCs head on, and their fares are outrageous.

QUOTE (kimshep @ Aug 26 2009, 11:24 PM) *
It has been said before. With the endless delays in the B787 program, to my mind, it is Boeing's credibility at stake here. Not Air Berlin's.

Yes, Boeing's credibility is at stake, but so is Air Berlin's.


Good observations, rob ..

But let's face it. As you rightly state, AB is operating in a tenuous duopoly situation .. in a time where traffic has evaporated and profit is entirely elusive - even for the larger carriers (anyone mention the god-like LH ?).

That's not exactly 'prime time' for overhauling / announcing a new marketing strategy .. or launching into non-productive 'fare wars'. You tend to stay with the 'status-quo' while it is still working. However, as many state .. AB (in their opinion) may have trouble justifying the purchase of the B787's.

But, on the other hand, imagine that their management is positioning itself for an entirely different marketing strategy ~ once the economy and the travel market returns, in spades. In such a case, now would be exactly the time to make these moves, wouldn't it ?
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